The first four words of this post’s title are truly amazing… Verizon Decides To Standardize. It is a rare occasion that Verizon decides to do anything like the rest of earth so it is a big deal when Verizon chairman and CEO, Ivan Seidenberg, talks about the choice to move to LTE.
Arun Sarin, CEO of Vodafone, and Verizon Communications Inc. chairman and CEO Ivan Seidenberg, spoke about the technology choice at the Goldman Sachs Communacopia conference yesterday.
Sarin laid out a path toward LTE evolution within the next three to four years.
I don’t know if LTE has (yet) been crowned the 4G global standard (hellno, please feel free to chime in), but the fact that Vodafone is going to LTE and AT&T is, at least, looking it, leads me to believe that BlackBerry handset selections a few years from now should be pretty sweet.
[Source]
Great. Now we will have to listen to hellno rant and rave for another 3 years (or however long it takes) before LTE is rolled out. Wonderful.
Sounds like Voda finally dropped the hammer on verizon and told verizon which technology they expect verizon to use in the future. There is no hiding that Voda is not happy with cdma technology. http://gigaom.com/2007/02/14/cdma-is-like-spaghetti-vodafone-ceo/
What’s interesting is verizon is now talking about cutting its cord with cdma, qualcomm and upgrading their system to the global GSM / UMTS Family. This in reality is a huge step forward for consumers and verizon, IF verizon also adopts a new culture of consumer freedoms which come with using the open, global standards. verizon needs to not just stop with the choice of standard carrier technology but also use open standards like java and DVB-H.
RIght now this is just talk since it sure seems the LTE project is not quite yet a standard, but seems will be part of the next version of the UMTS standard.
But it is a needed step forward and glad Voda is using it’s part ownership in verizon to force verizon into global standards. Now it seems up to verizon is move forward using open, global, standard technology AND dropping it’s greed and arrogant culture for consumer friendly open standards which in the long run will keep verizon in the money, more money than it’s current proprietary, crippled, locked, non-standard culture.
and Ned…
It’s not a rant, it’s called progress. You’d do well to learn and embrace open, global standards. Only fools think/thought verizon’s current proprietary, crippled, locked, non-standard path could continue.
The party has just begun….
The amount of time and money it would take for Verizon to convert to GSM (and still support all of their old CDMA customers) would be huge. I do not see that happening… at least not anytime soon.
Just an opinion.
Eric
hellno,
I’ve had ATT before it was ATT, then Cingular, then ATT again. I’ve had TMO when it was Voicestream and then when it was TMO. I even subscribed for 3 months (pay-as-you-go) to Orange in England. So I am familiar with the GSM standard and the quality of service.
Putting aside the complaints I may have about VZ’s customer service and how slow they are to get new phones, it has been my experience that the best quality calls — the best sounding, the least likely to be dropped — have been on the CDMA standard that you so routinely bash. As my prime concern when I purchase a new phone or sign up for service (which doesn’t happen very often given the length of the contracts that any service provider requires) is the quality of the calls first, you should be able to understand why I like CDMA. Add in the fact that, again in my experience, TMO and ATT are slow to deliver text messages and voicemails (I’ve missed a number of nights out with the boys b/c I didn’t know where to go since I couldn’t get a signal with my TMO/ATT phone and the text messages / vms never arrived). I’ve never had that problem with VZ.
Frankly, I don’t care if they cripple the GPS service or the music features or the video or wifi or any of that crap. I can get all of that from other devices more effectively (Tom-Tom, Ipod, Laptop). I want a phone first. If it has other features that I may use, bully. If it does not, so what.
If LTE proves to provide the same quality phone service as CDMA provides now with bandwidth speeds equal to or exceeding EV-DO rev. A, then I will jump all over that bandwagon. But as I see it, GSM does not provide near the same quality as CDMA and the mere fact that GSM is a “global” standard does not mean that the world should turn its back on competing quality standards.
In the end, it is this kind of thinking that got us VHS instead of Betamax. Beta was well known to be of a higher quality (higher resolution, less video noise). But because JVC adopted the VHS system, VHS was “the” standard for 20 odd years before DVDs came along.
I suppose in that sense, this is nothing more than history repeating itself (as it may again in the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD battle). In any event, I think it is sad that the better quality system will lose out to the more “global” standard. It is not high praise or commentary on those who are in position to make such decisions that they go this route.
I would hardly say that I am a “fool” or that I am not capable or unwilling of “embracing” anything. What I am is skeptical of a system that I have not found to be an improvement over VZ’s CDMA set-up. Maybe LTE will be the wave of the future and will usher us into a truly unified global standard with high quality services. But to blindly jump at any standard that is global is a mistake. I intend to proceed with a critical eye waiting for evidence that LTE and the rest of the GSM markets have equaled the quality that VZ already provides.
Well spoken Ned and I agree with you 100%. Quality of calls and coverage is more important to me then equipment. It surprises me that people can say that there is no difference between the quality/clarity of phone calls on AT&T/TMO compared to Verizon and Sprint. To me the difference in sound quality is night and day (though with Sprint I give them high marks in call quality/clarity, but they drop too many calls for my liking).
The day that AT&T (or some other GSM carrier) can match the quality that I get with Verizon, and have newer equipment too, I will cancel out of VZW that day and switch over.
Fanboyz can’t stop verizon from the inevitable upgrade to the GSM family of technologies. The FUD just is clouding judgement. Soon even fanboyz will learn GSM’s coverage and quality is as good if not better than anything cdma.
http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/21/verizon-dumps-cdma-for-gsm-based-lte-in-4g-networks/
This is very significant as many have noted that Verizon would eventually have to transition over to the GSM side. One interesting sidenote: where does this leave Sprint? They are betting everything on WiMax…
“The two CEOs cited the desire to allow their customers to roam freely between networks as one reason for choosing the LTE path together. While this certainly makes sense in the long run, it signals dark days ahead for the future of CDMA and its supporters, such as Qualcomm and Sprint (S).
Neither Qualcomm, nor the CDMA Development Group commented on the matter, but you can be sure we’ll hear from them eventually if Verizon Wireless does indeed choose LTE rather than UMB for its next-generation network.”
http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/09/verizon_wireles_10.html
Seems everyone, even verizon has had enough of qualcomm, dumping cdma is par for the course.
Ned,
Very well said. And as such you merited another hellno rant complete with references to FUD and fanboyz. Wonder if he has hot keys for inserting them into his post?
hellno,
Re: “You’d do well to learn and embrace open, global standards. Only fools think/thought verizon’s current proprietary, crippled, locked, non-standard path could continue.”
Glad to see you are for open standards. I wonder if you think Apple should do the same?
Last time I checked verizon is a service provider and Apple is a software and hardware designer and manufacture. Those are 2 different industry’s. Why the need to mix the facts to try to make a point from nothing but typical fanboy claims. By the way Apple DOES support open standards, and some of this technology DOES trickle down into the iPhone. http://developer.apple.com/opensource/index.html
also:
WWDC: Apple’s iPhone open to software developers
Jobs gives developers OK to build third-party apps on upcoming device
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9024300
Now dont get all bunched up over Voda calling the shots for verizon and telling them to get with the program and go LTE. As we all know Voda, like most don’t like cdma technology. Verizon brands, cripples, and removes functions from devices from several different manufactures, shouldn’t the device designer and manufacture call the shots over the device? verizon customers wouldn’t know, since verizon doesn’t allow devices which are not verizon branded from being activated. verizon uses closed, proprietary cdma technology in which to FUD non-thinking consumers (like yourself) into thinking that nothing is wrong, your getting all the functions, AND that all time sucker line about “most reliable network” perhaps verizon has the most reliable closed, proprietary cdma network, that might be true. Other service providers have service just as good if not better than verizon in terms of quality and least amount of dropped calls.
It’s good to see verizon has found dealing with qualcomm and closed, proprietary cdma not worth it. The standard, open, global technology GSM is the current path and the path forward. Many of us know GSM technology and service is just as good if not better than what cdma has to offer. Even verizon see’s the writing on the wall and just to keep up they must upgrade their whole network over from closed, proprietary cdma, to standard, open, global GSM technology, like many service providers (who made the wrong technology choice) have done before them.
Yes my years with verizon and many other providers is all the PROOF I need. All the proof I need to call BS when ever I read fanboy’s reciting from the verizon book of FUD and ignorance is out there in black and white for those who have a clue.
The iPhone is not “proprietary” in the sense it has the capability to work on any of the standard, open, global GSM networks. At&t was the exclusive provider for the roll out but that was only temporary as several providers on the other side of the pond have released that they have the honor of being iPhone providers too. Not that it’s right, but all top tier device manufactures do exclusives with the providers. Nothing new, only that Apple is in control of the iPhone and At&t controls the network which is a change for the better.
hellno,
why is it your years of experience all “all the PROOF I need” and yet you totally disregard the experiences of those whoe experience is different thatn yours…usually in a rude way.
As far as
“Last time I checked verizon is a service provider and Apple is a software and hardware designer and manufacture. Those are 2 different industry’s. Why the need to mix the facts to try to make a point from nothing but typical fanboy claims. By the way Apple DOES support open standards, and some of this technology DOES trickle down into the iPhone.”
Apple has many proprietary products, such as the iPod, iPhone and even the iMac I am typing this on. It is a key part of their profitability. Good for them. The fact that they are indifferent industries does not make that fact less so. You are spinning.
Hellno,
It is okay for you to say that your experience with CDMA and GSM carriers is all the proof you need to say that GSM is as good or better… but when I say that I have had both and my experience on Verizon is FAR superior, I am wrong.
That makes complete sense… NOT.
As I previously stated, when AT&T has call clarity and coverage that Verizon has I will switch. I am loyal to the company that has the best service and in my area that is easily Verizon.
Some aspects of Apple’s products are proprietary,other aspects are open, just like any device other than the openmoko http://openmoko.com/ The iphone operates on the standard, open, global GSM network, and is built on open software technologies. EVERYTHING about cdma and technology on verizon phones IS proprietary. brew, instead of Java, as just one example. Again verizon is a service provider which is different than being the device design and manufacture that Apple is. The iPhone and GSM RIM Blackberry’s are more open than cdma devices.
Lucky for everyone it’s a moot point now that verizon has seen the error in their early choice of carrier technology and is at least saying they will finally get with the program and upgrade their network to the open, global standard GSM family of technology. Closed, proprietary cdma on crippled devices is soon to be the past. GSM is the present and future, it’s the GSM family of technology which keeps on giving, and upsetting cdma fanboy’s FUD.
hellno,
U R spinning again. Proprietary is proprietary. And good luck using that open iPhone on T-mo without a hack.
In any event, u never do answer the core questions; What has better
voice quality and data coverage in the USA.
BTW, the technologies were always going to come together. In fact, I have seen comments that this is an outgrowth of the W-CDMA initiatives.
Another thing, Ned and Eric both make an excellent point; We are not married to the technology. We could care less who or what it is, we just want the best call quality, highest data speed in more places and best coverage. When someone can show me a better combination than Verizon, I will switch. I have the $200!
Until then, I am on Verizon because I think it has the best network. Gartner Group and Consumer Report agree with that assertion.
“What has better voice quality and data coverage in the USA?”
Didn’t notice that question was asked, or asked seriously, but there is no noticeable difference, your just desperately trying any number of cdma fanboy FUD sadly so typical. Just like verizon, nice spin yourself to try and align yourself with the truth.
Lucky over 2.6 BILLION know the facts that GSM technology can and DOES provide quality, data speed, coverage globally. verizon knows cdma technology is not the way forward and is desperately crushing the hopes and dreams of cdma fanboys, qualcomm, and will be spending BIG bucks to upgrade all their old cdma technology to GSM. There is going to be big kmart blue light special sale on old junky cdma gear soon, too bad there is no market for it since the other small number of cdma providers have also been upgrading cdma gear with open, global, standard, GSM.
Sadly it seems some cdma and verizon fanboys will just never be able to understand reality.
Your right “Proprietary is proprietary”
cdma is proprietary
GSM is an open standard which is developed by the 3GPP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM
Actually, the point that CDMA has better voice and data quality was raised several times. You choose to ignore it. Just like you choose to ignore that Gartner and others agree that Verizon’s CDMA network is the strongest in the US. Global acceptance means nothing if you do not travel globally. And Ned made an excellent point regarding quality versus adoption with the BetaMax example. For most of us, it is about voice and data quality and coverage. I will change in a minute when ATT can meet my needs better than VZW. I do not care if it is two cans and a string as long as it works. YOU care about the technology. Seriously, does it really matter that much? Or did VZW hurt your feelings that badly?
Last, you do realize qualcomm wins no matter what happens as they have patents everywhere.
GSM may be open, but if the phone is locked to a carrier as is the iPhone currently in the US, it is every bit as proprietary as a phone locked to a CDMA carrier.
As I was saying:
Apple Warns Of Irreparable Damage From Unlocking iPhone
Besides breaking the warranty, modified devices may become inoperable when this week’s iTunes update is released, Apple said.
By Antone Gonsalves
InformationWeek
September 24, 2007 06:02 PM
Apple on Monday warned that unlocking programs used to connect the iPhone to cellular networks other than AT&T (T)’s cause “irreparable damage” that would likely result in the modified device becoming inoperable when this week’s Apple-supplied software update is released.
Apple also said in a statement that iPhone customers that make unauthorized modifications to the device’s software violate the software license agreement and void the iPhone warranty. “The permanent inability to use an iPhone due to installing unlocking software is not covered under the iPhone’s warranty,” the company said in a statement.
A group of anonymous developers at iPhoneSIMfree started selling this month software that, once installed, would enable the smart phone to work on any service provider with a standard GSM SIM card. T-Mobile is an example of a carrier that would work on the modified iPhone.
Apple said it has found that many unlocking programs available on the Internet “cause irreparable damage to the iPhone’s software, which will likely result in the modified iPhone becoming permanently inoperable when a future Apple-supplied iPhone software update is installed.”
But hey, it works on the WW standard!
Ah, another spin job. You might bring FUD up using words like “Best” and “Strongest” but most here know thats pittyful fanboy talk and ignore it. There is not much point commenting on BS other than pointing it out for the FUD it is.
Wrong again… The Global, open, standards of GSM mean alot more to all consumers even if they don’t travel. Just look at the devices available why no top tier, current handsets available for cdma? We’ll because it’s cdma, because it has less than a 1/16th the consumers which use GSM, because of qualcomm and all the BS that comes along with doing business with them… the list goes on and on why cdma is the odd technology out. Global standards also means when one goes on vacation or travels on business there will most likely be service there. cdma’s footprint is a small pimple compared to GSM, cdma’s footprint has been shrinking while GSM’s has been expanding. Teaching all these BASIC’S which anyone who knows anything about wireless communication technology already knows. What over 2.6 BILLION people already know. Few holdouts are fighting a loosing battle based on FUD and BS now that verizon has changed it’s tune, is dropping cdma and will be upgrading it’s network to the global standard GSM.
It doesn’t matter if cdma is beta vrs. GSM being like VHS. VHS got the job done and while doing so BEAT beta, just like GSM is doing to cdma.
Unless you have a problem (by your posts we know you do, just nod and accept another FACT) GSM can and does provide all the quality that cdma does. Over 2.6 BILLION consumers GLOBALLY say GSM quality provides a more than addiquit job.
You seem strangely happy to point out the FUD that qualcomm “has patents everywhere” if true do you think this is a good thing for consumer wireless communication? The industry has shown qualcomm patent claims are not as solid as they think they are. qualcomm is nothing but another NTP or SCO and we’ve seen SCO come and go. The industry will NOT be held hostage to qualcomm’s FUD and BS patents as Nokia and Broadcomm have shown. qualcomm/verizon have retarded the wireless industry for years and are the reason why the US is always behind Europe in our wireless technology. We’ll allow you to go back and LEARN the TRUTH about qualcomm before you start spouting FUD about them too, which is just more of that “fanboy talk” FUD being ignored as pointed out above.
Since when was the iPhone the only GSM device? Pointed out above verizon is a service provider, Apple is a device designer and manufacture the two have nothing to do with each other. Unless your somehow trying to imply verizon is being forced into upgrading to GSM technology because of Apple and the iPhone? If not your “fanboy talk” comparison is nothing but “fanboy talk” and again see above what response “fanboy talk” is worth.
Since when was the iPhone the only device to receive a carrier lock? RIM BB’s have carrier locks, some Nokia’s have carrier locks. You can also spend more and either get them unlock OR buy a device without the carrier lock, but again only the freedom of GSM gives you that ability, verizon refuses to activate any cdma device which is not their own, that is if you can even find a cdma device to buy unbranded in the first place. GSM freedom is a great thing, slap a SIM card into any unlocked GSM device and off you go.
verizon loves ignorant sheep which believe any FUD which comes from verizon’s mouth, so keep up the good work showing all of us your true lack of knowledge when it comes to cdma and GSM. As we all watch verizon drop it’s BEAT beta cdma network for a brand new network based on the open, global, standard GSM family of technologies. The future is bright for consumer mobile technology with verizon’s LTE forward move, even if each customer of mcwireless needs to be finally taught the difference between the TRUTH and the FUD.
W/E
I have always qualified my posts by restricting myself to the US market. The standard in Europe means little when I am traveling in the US and have limited GSM coverage and slow-ass EDGE data. I have said repeatedly that when I get the voice coverage and data speed I currently experience with VZW, I will gladly switch. That willingness to switch makes me a fanboy, eh? In the meantime, I will enjoy wide voice coverage on VZW and fast EVDO Rev A data on Sprint. Have I mentioned that my observations are backed by personal experience, Gartner’s analysis and Consumer Reports? Yes.
Your response, “FUD (never met anyone in 10+ years of sales that used the word as much as you in one post BTW), FANboy, Worldwide users, FUD, FanBoy, Worldwide users…..”
Frankly, I never met anyone who cared as much about a network technology as you. Do you spend your nights in the dark surfing GSM sites and typing one-handed?
Come back when you figure out the TRUTH, not what verizon tells you first person, or pays others to tell you. Till then your continued BS posts are just showing the rest of us the proof of cdma fanboy ignorance.
The topic of the thread is based on verizon DUMPING cdma and upgrading to the open, global, standard GSM family of technology. This is a positive thing verizon is doing. There is nothing any fanboy can say or do to change the FACTS. Accept it, or not but verizon IS DUMPING cdma and upgrading to the open, global, standard GSM. Over 2.6 BILLION consumers can understand GSM is just as good, if not better than closed, crippled, proprietary cdma which is going, going GONE. Heres a news flash JHP2, no one particularly cares what you feel is acceptable GSM technology to make you follow the rest of the sheep over to GSM, stay with your outdated devices, your closed, cripple, devices. Keep bowing to verizon and qualcomm. 2.6 BILLION consumers can enjoy GSM (even more when verizon switches over to GSM) with the only global, standard, open technology GSM.
verizon loves ignorant sheep which believe any FUD which comes from verizon’s mouth, so keep up the good work showing all of us your true lack of knowledge and understanding of the facts.